Leo McKinstry, Daily Express, has another piece of 'EU Bashing', in which he too refers to the need to bring our law-making ability back home. However, in his article he writes:
"We are no longer governed by our representatives but an unaccountable, arrogant cabal of ideological, meddling lawyers who use the Human Rights Act as a battering ram to undermine the values that built our civilisation."
McKinstry should also have made the point that we are, unfortunately, governed by elected politicians who too have formed themselves into a cabal; who too are arrogant; and who too, by imposing their ideological meddling policies, have undermined the values that built our once great nation!
That our elected politicians are, on the whole, self-centred, venal individuals, it becomes even more important that they are 'removed' from office. There are only two methods available: (a) either through the ballot box which, allowing for the mindless state to which the electorate has been reduced by that same self-centred venal cabal, is highly unlikely; or (b) by a popular uprising when the people realise how they have been 'sold down the river' in more ways than one.
That then prompts the question how would such an uprising be controlled by the politicians? During the time of the last government IanPJ on Politics posted this, a post in which, with his usual 'insight', he raises a very important question: "Would the army fire on its own people?", prompted by the obvious conclusion that were millions of people to 'rise up', the police on their own could not hope to cope with such numbers. Interestingly, the Civil Contingencies Act is still extant, ie 'in force'. It is also worth reminding readers of Article 88; (2) (b) and (3); of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (TFEU) as you can be sure Brussels would not sit idly by and watch one of their 'regions' disintegrate into what they would term 'chaos', but would in fact just be the UK reverting to a self-governing nation once again - which then, in turn, poses an interesting problem for our police and armed forces: would they sit idly by and watch their own people cowed, beaten and imprisoned for wanting their freedom?
Richard North, EU Referendum, has posted a question here on the subject of if we were to be granted a referendum, the result of which was to leave the EU - "and then what"? The same question can be put to those hankering to 'oust' our political elite, having previously rushed out to purchase hemp and reserving a lampost for their own use. Until a political party - and it won't be one of the Lib/Lab/Con under their present leadership - actually set out a 'schedule', were they to be elected to form a government, showing how and in what order they would make our nation independent once again, then any popular revolution is pointless. Yes, the people can 'topple' our politicians and deliver the punishment that so many of them deserve - but before they do so they will understandably wish to know what will be offered to them as a replacement. The only party of any reasonable size offering independence from the EU are UKIP - so UKIP what about it? Does UKIP have such a 'schedule' - and if so, what is it?*
It may be that @VColumn on Twitter could be the catalyst of any uprising as interesting comments are coming from that source although, to my knowledge, little is known about those behind that Twitter feed; or what are their motives and what they may have planned.
* Yes, I know, there is "The Plan" authored by Carswell and Hannan - but that is all it is, a plan and one in no coherent order either.
13 comments:
WfW, a propos a recent comment of mine regarding preparations for a recovery of our country, there is another key matter that will have to be known before the uprising starts. And that is the location of weapons. Don't the TA locations still hold rifles and hand guns? If so, there needs to be a recognition of this, because there will certainly be a need for people to arm themselves.
If you look at the ECJ and ECHR you will see the term "lawyer" is not one familiar to Britons. These "Judges" are not practising lawyers elevated to The Bench.
They are in the main Law Professors from Universities or Civil Servants from a Ministry of Justice.
The nature of Administrative Law on The Continent is a separate legal structure compared to the UK. In fact the legal basis of law in Continental Europe is so alien to the English tradition that it is peculiar to think it can be integrated.
jic: there are ways and means....
As to people arming themselves, I wonder if that would in fact be necessary - the sight of a few hundred thousand bearing down on a few hundred can be quite intimidating and also I question if our forces would fire on their own???
TT: you make powerful points, especially the last one!
Pixijade has posted a comment here which for some reason has not registered. In the interests of fairness I now reproduce it:
"in reply to your comment on my post http://wp.me/p1jLRB-2R and your post here, First 'the plan' as you say is just a plan anyone can make a plan and Carswell and Hannan are full of bullshit talk, and considering they wanted to wind-up B.O.O. they and their 'plan' are lost causes.
What then? if a referendum is held, I think it would offer the people a chance to have their say, but foremost for an actual debate to take place to discover the options that are available to Britain, without the political elite, brushing this issue under the carpet- the issue of the EU will not just disappear, better to debate than silence.
Also I find it a bit bemusing that you have not thought of the consequence before since you (and others, including me) have called for a referendum, several times.
It is quite simple; a proper debate and consultation WITH the public, will bring about discussion, ideas and resolutions to the problem , and I would add too that UKIP is not the only answer, since they do not have any power at Westminster yet, they have not been tested on their words, so I wouldn't exactly count on them to save us."
Pixilady: First let me say I was not disagreeing with what you wrote on your own post, one with which I agree.
I quite agree that your bemusement for/of me is warranted. I had been thinking about this further 'problem' for a few days actually - and RN's post 'beat me to it'
Yes of course there shud be a referendum; yes of course there should be options available if the result is in favour of leaving; yes there shud be debate - and those questions shud be part of the ballot paper. If the yes vote is in the majority, then the no vote papers can be discarded and the yes papers then 'recounted' in respect of what we want to follow an exit.
I just feel on reflection it would gain more popular support were the entire subject set out logically and that the referendum then contained more than just the one question.
I do believe that the mistakes of '72 and '75 are not and cannot be repeated - ie, there must be equal limits placed on campaign expenditure; there must be equal time on air and space in the national press for equal coverage for both 'camps', something which did not happen in '72 and '75!
I also accept that UKIP are but politicians and that as such, they cannot be trusted either - at least not without them proving their credentials! As such I also believe the revolution, one that I have also called for, will be led by the people - but that having won said revolution, we do need 'others', new politicos, to step forward and administer the 'after effects'.
I can but hope that that sets your mind at rest in regard to my position - and that we are still 'friends'?
".. as you can be sure Brussels would not sit idly by and watch one of their 'regions' disintegrate into what they would term 'chaos', but would in fact just be the UK reverting to a self-governing nation once again .."
Isn't this the truth. Reverting back to normal will be considered abnormal "chaos" by the corrupting powers that reprogrammed normal out of existence in their effort to take over.
For the question of UK troops bearing down on its own people, they would of course bring in non-UK troops from across the Channel to settle the "chaos".
A vote to get out of the EU doesn't necessarily call for immediate action but would place the UK in a far greater negotiating position. We could negotiate all the benefits (trade) with none of the drawbacks (ECHR). If, at the end of negotiations, we find we opt to remain in the EU it would be in the situation we were led to believe it would be when it was first proposed - a trading group that works for the benefit of all the european people. NOT a centralised bureaucratic behemoth it has become.
A: Re your last para - which begs the additional question; would uk troops/police stand by and watch a foreign occupation 'army/police' subjugate their own? Another interesting conundrum?
Personally, I can't see that happening, in which case we have our second 'civil war'. Of course,if Cameron et all had left us with an Army, Navy and Airforce we could have just repeated 1944 and settled the question once and for all! (ok, I jest - not!)
In any event, regarding a revolution and regardless of the politicos, "we" need to 'get together'!
Yet again Blogger has failed to post a comment"
Again I reproduce:
"Dave_G has left a new comment on your post "Something missing.......?":
A vote to get out of the EU doesn't necessarily call for immediate action but would place the UK in a far greater negotiating position. We could negotiate all the benefits (trade) with none of the drawbacks (ECHR). If, at the end of negotiations, we find we opt to remain in the EU it would be in the situation we were led to believe it would be when it was first proposed - a trading group that works for the benefit of all the european people. NOT a centralised bureaucratic behemoth it has become."
DG: Sorry but you misunderstand. We cannot 'remain' in the EU but not let them have political control. We stay in, with all the present problems, or we come out and then renegiotiate a trading agreement, similar to EFTA.
It is either one or the other!
WfW, I agree with you; we are either in (please God, no), or we are out (yay, freedom) there is no 'third way'. And I'm sorry to repeat myself, but I don't believe we can achieve withdrawal without force. I don't think our armed forces will allow themselves to be used against us, but I don't believe the EU would use our armed forces. However, I don't have any faith that our police would refrain from using lethal force to put down a popular uprising. And I think the EU, just to be sure, would import paramilitary forces to be deployed against us, and who would answer to their EU masters. Hence my belief that weapons will be needed.
Of course, I also suggest that all tv and radio stations will have to be taken over very quickly because you can be sure that they already have a contingency plan for such a situation; and propaganda will be used to persuade the people to act against the 'mob'.
jic: you make a fair point on the 'arming' question and one with which I am in agreement with you - fear not.
And how many police are there? Faced with even one million unarmed poeple, I think even the police would think twice - the politicos surely would, having considered world opinion.....
Anyway, we shall see......
WW -I recently posted on SR's blog my letter in reaction to the census.
In it I missed out the position between the UK and the EU. So can I just add the missed oppurtunity in not having a couple of tick boxes asking the question whether we should be in or out?
With regard to the EU my position is quite clear. It is not a democratic institution, yet is neither a autocracy nor plutocracy -in fact it is nothing other than a cabal of power brokers intent on creating a power base of establishments. Which, under the guise of another sham democracy makes control so much easier to function.
There would be a purpose to an EU set up purely as a trade and defence amalgam, but with no control or power in the domestic laws, politics or finances of the member countries.
For the question of UK troops bearing down on its own people
Well it did become an issue at the Curragh in 1914 when the British Army refused to take on Edward Carson's UVF and the Liberal Government lost control of the Army for the first time since 1688............nonetheless they killed off the Army and Carson's Volunteers on The Somme !
C&RAP: Indeed why no question as you suggest. I would accept the trade bit but definitely not the defense bit - sorry.
TT: As ever you make a good point...
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