Wednesday, 10 August 2011

Riotous behaviour (3)

"Collectivism doesn't work because it's based on a faulty economic premise. There is no such thing as a person's "fair share" of wealth. The gross national product is not a pizza that must be carefully divided because if I get too many slices, you have to eat the box. The economy is expandable and, in any practical sense, limitless."
P. J. O'Rourke, "How to Explain Conservatism" (Applicable not just to wealth)
As the rioting and looting continues, coupled with our politicians continuing condemnation, it will not be long before the old mantra of "lessons being learnt" will be the next 'public soothing statement' to appear from the politicians, police, charities and every other 'stakeholder'.

It is obvious, as I posted here, who is to blame for the present state of affairs and one does have to ask how many years practise do our politicians require before they do get things right? It cannot be beyond the wit of even the most brain-dead politician to have realized, at the outset, that taking away the right of teachers to discipline unruly children can only create problems for them and for society in later years. It cannot be beyond the wit of those same brain-dead politicians to have realized that allowing a culture in which being aware of the sensitivities of ethnic groups dictates how the police handle insurrection creates a situation wherein lawbreakers can understandably feel a sense of freedom to do as they wish. 

Even now, when we witness the public coming together to defend their own property and streets (surely the Big Society in action), the Met Police then warn the public against forming groups intent on vigilante justice. Just who mentioned those groups being intent on vigilante action? They stated they were intent on protecting their property and protecting their streets from those looting and rioting - nothing more. So, if in the process of restraining a few lawbreakers, those lawbreakers suffer a few bruises - the problem is........?

Part of the problem is also the conditions under which lawbreakers - well, at least those lawbreakers that suffer a commital sentence - are housed. A report from the BBC states that the Inspector of Prisons has condemned Wandsworth Prison for being "unsafe and demeaning", citing reasons ranging from the amount of time prisoners were locked-up to the fact that black and ethnic minorities were "disadvantaged". Interestingly, policies which don't appear to be having any significant effect, such as retraining and resettlement were praised. A situation that arises whereby a period of punishment results in a better living standard than that experienced at home cannot logically have any deterrent effect..

The fact that certain politicians (stand up Harriet Harman - who else?) just cannot seem to talk about rioting and looting without mention 'cuts', loss of EMA, etc as 'causes' can only illustrate the lack of thinking politicians have.

Charles Crawford, writing on the Commentator website has an article well worth reading, in which he states:
"Thus every day in every way our society is infiltrated by divisive sneering. Most of it emanates from publicly funded organisations captured by the sneering classes (universities, BBC, NGOs, local councils, quangos). And over the years the consequences of this tsunami of state-subsidised sneering compound up, not least in the way people think about what they themselves represent in society and what society ‘owes’ to them. This in turn gnaws at deepest instincts of personal self-respect. How dare the government make ‘cuts’? It’s my money, especially if I have done nothing to earn it!....[......].... And that’s the most ruinous feature of the Labour Party’s support for the unrelenting deconstruction of British values. It has created ignorant, violent decontextualised people completely detached from history - and morality." (Emphasis mine)
Well Harriet?

The same question can be posed to Cameron, MilibandE, Clegg and every one of their ilk; because whilst it is accepted that lawbreakers must have their human rights respected, such a belief means that there can be no effective punishment for crime. Any person suffering a commital sentence has commited an act which shows their disdain for the benefits of the society in which they live, so why should they continue to enjoy those benefits? On the basis that ridicule from one's fellow man is the most hurtful experience anyone can suffer, how about taking a leaf out of the punishment regime of the United States? How about immediately on sentence, rioters and looters are promptly sent straight out in chain-gangs to clear up the mess they have caused? Harsh? Maybe, but: as you sow, so shall you reap. That in itself should go some way to reducing the bill that society has to pay for the actions of idiots!

One thing is plain - our society has been reduced to a nadir through the actions of politicians practising social-engineering in the areas of education, crime and punishment, aided and abetted by their coterie of quangos, charities and civil servants; all of whom appear to have a common purpose. On the basis of the old adage that a leopard never changes it spots, methinks we need a new set of politicians, ones who are also prepared to reform a totally failed system of government.


Anonymous said...

I long since stopped listening to Hattie judging her incapable of reasonable analysis, but I have to say, the politicos in general have come across as pathetic. First nothing, then empty condemnation, the the Home Secretary says no water cannon, next day Cameron says well actually yes. Labour are making nonsensical statements about cuts and secretly hoping this is the proletarian uprising they all dreamt of in college. Meanwhile the Met are up to their old PR tricks and poor old defenceless householders and shopkeepers are left to burn, but massively chastasied if they do anything about it.

It is my hope the wider populace realise the whole collective have failed and kick them out electorally.

opinion prole said...

I can't understand why Gove and other Tories go so easy on arch-hypocrites like Harman. Her only interest is spinning everything to make Labour look caring and sympathetic, but she knows it's their fault. What we are seeing now is the direct result of 13 years of Labour 'education', aided and abetted by BBC brainwashing. The ignorant tarts and boneheaded yoofs interviewed on TV as they drink and smash their way into a few moments of fame sound to me like creatures from another world.

One remedy is a good kick up the backside and a good talking to by a terrifying authority figure every day for months or years on end, combined with hard physical effort. It used to be called National Service but I'm sure they can think of some anodyne bullshit name to make it sound like a bit of fun. Isn't that what they want?

PeterCharles said...

As saot says, Harman has never made a reasoned analysis in her political life, nor is she ever likely to do so, yet she is one of Labour's big beasts, go figure.

As to water cannon the simple answer the politicians don't want to tell you is that there aren't any on the UK mainland, those we have are in Northern Ireland as was prised out of a senior police officer on Radio 4 this morning.

Anyway back to WfW. The objection of the police to community action is not so much that it raises the potential for even more disorder, which it does when you consider the Sikhs protecting their Temple and waving their swords in the air, it is because successful community action makes them look incompetent and, even worse, irrelevant. As several commentators have said, if the police can't keep order then what is the point of employing them.

The roots of these troubles really do lay in the untouchability of teenage yobs, the inability of schools to instil and maintain discipline etc. as well as too large unassimilated ethnic minorities. I have not witnessed any of these events myself, I am extremely happy to say, but from what I have seen large numbers of those involved are in their twenties rather than their teens.

There is also the point that Richard North makes, it isn't just ethnic minority yobs that loathe the police, I would guess that 90% of people that have come into official contact with our modern police, outside of being a victim of crime, found the encounter most unpleasant. The modern police officer is at the very top of the sneering classes. There are, I think, two simple reasons for this; modern police are not in general a part of the community and their training designed to make them forceful and in control more often than not teaches them how to be school yard bullies.

I find your comments re prison are a little naive, if I may say so. You have to remember that prisons can only run with the consent of the imprisoned, too harsh a regime results in prison riots and even more anti-social ex-offenders. Nor does prison generally work as a deterrent even if harsh. The answer to criminality in general is to catch it young. By the time young offenders get sent to prison they are already hardened criminals, only early intervention, carting kids who have crossed the line from naughtiness to nastiness off to residential schools for the rest of their childhood would be the most effective. Catch them at that stage and you can negate the two worst influences on their lives, family and environment. Schools that model 1950s public school ideals would be very effective. It would also cure the discipline problems in our ordinary schools.

WitteringsfromWitney said...

Saot: I wish I did not have to listen to Mad Hatty, but almost everything I read or hear is her! The fact the Coalition 'U' turns on almost every matter is well made, however if we kick them out electorally, the alternative we will get is MiliE! Twixt devil and deep blue sea.......

op: The reason for Tories being 'easy' on Harman - and vice versa - is that the public disagreements are just that, for the public. They all belong to the same club and don't wish for intruders! Your point about where the blame lies and the last 13years is again well made. The remainder of your comment I will answer with PC.

PC: Your point about the police and community action may well be true, but I also think it is due to this adherence to the idea that only the state should provide 'services'.

Regarding untouchability, inability and large unassimilated ethnics - agreed.

Whilst acknowledging Richard North's views, I think it reasonable to say that the police only behave as they are instructed to do by their senior management - however I do think some of the lower ranks have 'gone native'.

Now we come to prisons and here perhaps I did not make plain that which I should have. I am not saying that prison life should be 'hell' - I do not accept that all the niceties of society should be provided: tv's social and sports facilities etc etc. All they need is the bare necessities: a bed, washing and toilet facilities, food, heating when necessary. If they want to trash that then that is their problem cause they will have to live with it.

You comment about the treatment of youth is understood, on the other hand if schools had discipline, real discipline, then perhaps the level of youth crime would not be so great?

cosmic said...

With Harman and Gove I saw two representatives of parties with very similar views, fencing. Harman speaks and thinks in fly-blown cliches.

What we can see here is the result of years of policies, high immigration, low social mobility, state interference with benefits and social engineering, degradation of the educational system etc., all financed by debt and all ridiculous. It proceeded apace under Nu Labour, but it started before them. The Conservatives in opposition weren't opposed to any of it in principle, they were offering to do much the same things in a slightly different way. In office, their attempts to reverse it have been limp-wristed.

WitteringsfromWitney said...

c: You are quite correct - regarding your first paragraph: Any public disagreement is for show only, privately they ensure that no-one else gets a chance to break up their private little club!